Thursday, September 29, 2005

Why do people hate God?

I sit very often trying to figure out how people could possibly hate God, the notion of God, God's Word, or God's people.

I have heard arguments that God's people are full of evil, yet I wander where they get that information from. The last time I checked it was Christian people who have funded the Hurricane Relief effort the most. It was Christian people who funded the Tsunami Relief the most, and it was Christian people who everyday are packing there cars to go and assist in being onsite at the scene of the tragedy.

I sit and wander just how much money the Atheist organizations send, or the Muslim organizations send to help. I am not stating that they don't do anything, for I am sure that they do, but I will remind Muslims that it was Christians who helped the most in Indonesia and Sri Lanka, and not the Muslim countries who are in the region.

So where does their bitter feeling towards us come from.

I sit and wander what it hurts to have the words "Under God" listed in the pledge, or on money, or why the "Ten Commandments" pose such a threat.

What exactly have we done to offend so many people?

Well here is what I have come up with: People don't want to be told that murder is bad, because murder is protected in personal rights. People are offended when told that there is a God who will judge them some day, and the ones who are offended are the same ones who detested their parents growing up for telling them what to do. People are offended when told that sex outside of the realm of marriage is bad, yet they don't seem to care that the huge majority of criminals come from relationships that fit exactly that truth. People are offended when told that the truths that are given in the Bible if lived by, would produce a perfect world, because a perfect world to them is one to which they can do as they please.

If these aren't true I would love to hear just exactly what people hate about us.

Then there is God's Word. I asked a guy I was communicating with to show me one place to which produced evil and I was given the story of Noah and the flood, but the last time I checked that whole story was about God cleansing the Earth of evil. So how could that fit? For all you out there who hate us Christians I still would love to know what evils are supported by the Commandments that we have been given by God to abide by. Is the notion of loving your neighbor as yourself a bad principle? Is the command to Love your enemies as yourself a bad principle? Oh maybe it is the passage that deals with serving others before serving yourself that bothers you the most. I just don't get why they hate us.

What bothers me the most is not that they hate me, because Christ said that the world would hate us just as it hated Him, but rather that people could actually detest God. How could one detest God. I have heard the statements that God is arrogant, and selfish, yet even that doesn't make sense to me. I thought that by accepting Christ, I am an heir to God, and a child of God. I thought that the reward was to share all of the great things God possesses with Him when I die. Surely many people who hate God, aren't so satisfied with their current lives to reject paradise. What could anyone hate about God?

The only thing that I do understand is that if there is anything to hate about Christians, it lies in the fact that we still disobey God's commands. Outsiders love to talk about the hypocrisy of Christians. Outsiders love to site the fact that there have been people who have done horrible acts while using the Bible as a cover for them. The way I look at it is that those who do horrible things and use the Bible as their defense are just as crazy as the person who used a Hostess twinkie as his defense. It doesn't add up. The truth is that the Bible in no way encourages evil actions. If followed people see in Christians the love that God has for them. So maybe the reason people hate God, Christians, and the Bible is based on our poor representation of what our faith is all about.



At 8:05 PM, Blogger dale said...

I can't speak for all nonbelievers of the bible, as many of them also are believers in another organized faith based on a historical novel, but in my case, I think it will help to understand that you've got me all wrong.

I don't hate god, Todd. There isn't a god for me to be mad at. But you can't see that and therefore are confounded. That feeling you have is called cognitive dissonance, and it's what people experience when they find out that what they formerly believed was wrong. Like when they realize Santa Claus isn't real. Imagine the feeling you think I'm going to have on judgement day, when I am humiliated in front of god and feel all the horrible burning shame and whatnot. It's sort of like that, but real. You start to feel it when you really consider the biological impossibilities of a virgin giving birth, or a man building a boat that holds many (maybe seventy?) thousands of pairs of animals, which he then distributes carefully all throughout the world, careful to keep the kangaroos only in Australia, et cetera. And I don't like it. I don't want you to feel bad.

I'd be a lot happier if I felt like I could give you credit for being reasonable, and that's no lie.

So I'm not mad at god, and I am seeing your reaching for this as a means of your changing your thoughts to ones that you are more comfortable with. I'm mad at people, yes. People just like you, who, while on one hand spend time trying to convince people that bizarre psychedelia such as the cannibalistic fantasy of "drinking the blood and eating the flesh" of the leader is normal, and also claim that your religious view is the only legitimate one and that all other belief systems must be inferior.

It's this dogged determination to keep facts (reality) away from the part of your brain that makes you a drain on the social fabric of America, which enjoys a waning reputation as the greatest country in the world in terms of liberty NOT because of god, but because of the secular nature of our constitution, which established a nation that respected the tension between two enemies, enlightenment rationalism and organized religion, and didn't try to combine them. And these people I am mad at, who you have come to represent for me, also have the gall to claim to be morally superior, which is the last straw. I would be delinquent in my duty as a conscientious human being, and a patriotic American, if I didn't speak to you honestly on this subject, and to question the basis of your faith because of its harmful fallout.

It's not dangerous on the level of one small congregation, but the grouping of people suffocates the individual spirit, the ability to ask questions, and what soon follows, as a direct result of group thinking, is political apathy. Once in the habit of following the leader, even the most grotesque self-deception is easily swallowed. Cheap lies from the leaders of churches and political parties (think G.W. Bush) who people like you are too sheepish to rise up and challenge pass unnoticed, and it is utterly frustrating to try to have a meaningful, rational discussion with you because what I am talking to is a collection of dogmas.

“There will never be world peace until God’s house and God’s people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world, wrote Pat Robertson. I think you think it's true.

And because of party-line Christians such as yourself, because of your commitment to lap up whatever you're thrown by the church or its political associates, America is an increasingly ungly place, and that affects me every day.

I hope I've made it clear that I hate not god, but ignorance, and I dislike people who embrace it as completely as do conservative Christians.


At 10:17 PM, Blogger Todd said...


In the same manner to which you can't speak for ann nonbelievers so I cannot speak for all believers of the Bible. I totally understand what you are saying. If you'll read the last part of my argument I made the statement that there is nothing to hate about who God is or what's in the Bible, but rather it is because of those of us who are Christians who don't live by what the Bible says that creates hatred towards Christianity. As for some of your points I would as you already know, like to respond.

As for your first point in calling my feeling cognitive dissonance, I would have to disagree. I know that looking out us from the outside, it might appear that we are all just brainwashed, incapable of reasoning, and so forth, but the truth is that I don't know of too many Christians who believe in the Bible, or about God who do so without some kind of experience of seeing reality come out of what the Bible says.

Comparing believing in God to Santa Claus is like comparing Dinosaurs to the Loch Ness monster or Sasquatch. So I will ignore your comparison.

Whereas you talk about the biological impossibilities of the virgin birth, you are probably a believer in the ability to clone. I don't see much differences between the two. Mankind has made giant leaps in the field of science, and each one of these strides show what used to be impossible is now a possibility. So why is my belief in a rational God who created all things, therefore being capable of creating a human being in the womb of a woman without her having sex such a stupid belief to you?

As for Noah's Ark which seems to have excited you as your next impossible question for us to answer, I will give a response. But in order for you to understand what I am saying it might require you to pick up a Bible. First off, pick up a Bible and look at the size of the Ark. After you are done doing that, then look at the exact wording. The Bible does not state that Noah had two of every animal in the Ark, but rather two of each KIND of animal.

You seem to be a follower of science. Tell me this much, what is the basic building block in classifying animals? After understanding that, now realize what I am saying. I don't disagree with many parts of the evolutionary theory. I do believe that animals have evolved within their own species and created many subspecies, I just don't believe man evolved from monkeys. As for the Kangaroos remaining only in Australia, if what I am saying is right, then kangaroos would've changed over time into what they are today, which means that they would've settled in a place to which they are best made for living in, and their bodies would've adapted.

As for you being mad not at God, I am relieved, but I must state that I am shocked to hear you say that you are mad at people like me. I have not once treated you in a hostile manner. When you ridicule me, and call me all types of names, I don't respond in the same manner back to you. I have constantly stated that I respect your beliefs, I believe you to be a very intelligent person, and so forth. What have I done to you. Only because I disagree with your belief in the non-existence of God do you hate me. You keep making references to Christians imposing their beliefs on other people, well I would state that you are trying to do the same. Don't be hypocritical. You are mad because we believe that our belief system is the only right one, and yet you hate me because you believe that your belief system is the only right one. Your sounding very hypocritical.

As for keeping facts away from my brain, I couldn't disagree with you anymore. I am very in touch with reality. I believe what I see all around me. I believe in what science says. I just don't believe that science is a perfect mistake. I have constantly shared with you Dale that it's not that I don't agree with the sciences, it's simply that I believe that the sciences point towards God. Do I have to repeat myself with you everytime?

"It's this dogged determination to keep facts (reality) away from the part of your brain that makes you a drain on the social fabric of America, which enjoys a waning reputation as the greatest country in the world in terms of liberty NOT because of god, but because of the secular nature of our constitution, which established a nation that respected the tension between two enemies, enlightenment rationalism and organized religion, and didn't try to combine them." As for your point here, Dale I would advise you to not go there with me. I study political science, and I can give you hundreds of references of the writier's of the constitution, early government leaders, writers of the Articles of Confederation, and so forth making all effort to show that their beliefs were centered around Christian beliefs. If you want to discuss this let me know and we'll start an investigation into the facts, but that's up to you.

As for Christian involvement in politics I would advise you to look at when Christian's started forcing a voice into politics. It is a recent phenomenom, and it was done in response to the radical attempts at liberalization of social policy in this country. Need I remind you that not less than 20 years ago the historical Bible belt was a democratic surety in elections. Why is it suddenly a surety for Republicans? Have you ever thought to look at why Christians have gotten so riled up lately? It is a response to the departure of the intent of the Constitutional author's that has angered us. For example, was the word God not listed in the early writings hundreds of times? Yet we live in a time where even the word God is being attacked. We live in a time where we can't have Christmas, or Easter, even though they have been secularized already by the inclusion of the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. Christmas and Easter aren't about bunnies and fat men to Christians, yet because it has a connection to Christian beliefs it isn't accepted anymore. That is the radical attempt to liberalize and run away from the original intent of the writers that caused Christians to stand up and fight in politics for one party.

As for conservative Christians, I can see your point of annoyance to a certain level. I too get frustrated by those who think that Bush can do no wrong. I too get frustrated by those who say that all Democrats are evil. I'll have you know that it wasn't until this last election that I became a Republican. I didn't vote for Bush the first time, but I refused to vote for a Democrat the second time. I think Democrats are better when it comes to economical policies, and I think the tax cuts go against Christian values in the same way that I believe that capitalism isn't a Christian valued policy. I get frustrated by Christians who listen to Rush Limbaugh and think that he is a great Christian leader, and represents our beliefs. Limbaugh represents Republican beliefs, which are not necessarily anymore Christian than Democratic beliefs. I don't think politics have any real connection to Christian beliefs because it is a secular system. So therefore I get frustrated at any attempt to connect politics or a party to the word Christian. I do believe that certain social policies are representative however, but they come from both parties. Therefore, you are mistaken to generalize Christians as brainwashed, while also being correct in your frustration with many Christians who act exactly like the manner to which you have described.

Dale, I really think if you really pay attention to what I am saying you will find no reason to be mad at me. You are assuming that I am the radical political Christian that many are, and you are wrong. I have stood on the minority side of many political arguments with other Christians. However, they are passionate because of certain issues such as abortion, homosexual marriage, and other issues. They are right to have their beliefs too, as are both of us. You can't hate one person's right to individual beliefs, while loving anothers. You must respect all, including the Christians.


At 12:58 PM, Blogger death to ego said...

I want to still consider myself as a Christian, but certain thoughts have boggled my mind of the god of the bible not being the actual God of the universe.

Why would I say such a thing? I feel horrible even thinking such a thought and feel even worse to actually tell others about it. But after so many times of deep thought and comparing the god of the bible to what I think an actual God would act like, they differ tremendously. The God of my mind or universe would have never been jealous. This God would not allow his religion to be one of the most diverse out of all, with three primary being Judaism, Islam, Christianity, with each one branching off with more diversities. Not only that, but they continuously condemn each other with no proof of which one is correct.

How could God's religion be established by murder and taking of other peoples land (old testament) after Moses had brought down the 10 commandments? Do god's laws change under certain conditions? If it does, then the god of the bible contradicts himself.

Why was the old testament written by Jews (his chosen people) but the New Testament can't be because the Jews killed supposedly the prophesied messiah?

Why would the Jews being the chosen people, kill a part of God himself?

Why would god of the bible want this confusion? He did it himself at the tower of babel. He split the people up to many nations. Why did god show favortism to the jews and not to anyone else?

Why is the god of the bible a jealous god. Is he not satan himself. How can god be jealous if he is perfect? Does my conscience want to be better than god by killing off my ego? It seems that the bible was written by many people (authors not being God) who had an ego and it can easily be seen in the scriptures.

I'm not trying to offend anyone by any means. I have been a practicing Christian my whole life until here recently. What made me ponder is that the author of the bible doesn't seem like the God of the universe.

The bible seems to me to be a manipulation tool written by someone who is not perfect and has an ego just like me. I used to think the B.I.B.L.E. was the "basic instructions before leaving earth" but now it just seems like a tool for fear when my natural conscience does that for me.

One last thought. The books of the bible were written supposedly with God's word with man being the penmen, meaning that there were certain people chosen from God to write his word. If that is true, then why were the high priest, scholars, early Christians and so on that were never talked or prophesied about, able to choose with their human interpretations what should and should not be included in the canon?


At 7:00 AM, Blogger DJ said...

"Ask and you shall recieve" or whatsoever you ask in faith and belief, you shall recieve" Hum, what about the 6 miliion Jews who asked for God's mercy not to be slaughtered by Adolf Hitler" They believed in God and that He would save them, but were their prayers answered? What did they recieve?

At 7:21 PM, Blogger Thee Indy said...

People hate what they don't understand. Also, people hate not being the most important beings in the universe. People believe that "freedom" means autonomy and self-sufficiency. That is an illusion that society purposely has created to harbor such negative emotions about cohesion of community, and ultimately, God. God and Christ are important because, without them, there would be no voice for the forgotten. Also... people have become impatient and insolent. I've been deeply involved with just about every philosophy and spiritual tradition (while always maintaining a background loyalty to Christians... I never approved of anti-Christian sentiment, even when delving into the darkest depths of spiritually wrong directions)and, through both grace of God, combined with reason and right philosophy, I have decided that.... the ultimate irony of our time is that Christianity, as marginalized as it may have become in recent times heavily due to the cartoonish behavior of many churches and christianity-lite combined with scientific materialism, withstands the most thorough scrutiny. However, most people don't give anything a fair trial. They are robots, programmed to operate within a thin margin. They don't want people to judge anything because they themselves are afraid of being judged. People want what they want, and anyone who stands in the way of their selfish desires is their enemy.
You can see how perfectly many of these so-called spiritual traditions fit in well with our modern self-centered culture. Buddhism and most other esoteric lines of thought are essentially atheistic spirituality, encouraging individuals that by the power of self, one can transcend self (???). Reminds me of something Jesus said to the Pharisees after being accused of using demons to cast out demons.

"And if Satan casts out Satan, he has been divided against himself; how therefore will his Kingdom stand?"

At 7:36 PM, Blogger Thee Indy said...

Oh and God didn't kill 6 million Jews. Hitler did. Do you want God to give you a shiny new toy whenever you go to the superstore? Life is not perfect by any means. If you want God to always give humanity what it wants, in a universe which is so much bigger and fuller than we could even conceive of, your comprehension of reality is about the size of a subatomic particle.
Did America prevent those 6 million Jews from being slaughtered? Did the Germans living next door to the concentration camps prevent it? Did the Jews themselves come together, the thousands of Jews who were imprisoned at a time, and overpower the relative handful of German soldiers? No! God had nothing to do with it. That was all humanity's fault. We want what we want, and we are apathetic and too pre-occupied with a bright hope for the future, that we don't understand that we're all here right now and we can all act to prevent things from happening, but even God cannot force us to realize that we're all in this together. That's love, is allowing humans to be childish and make a mess of everything.... so they can understand that they are not gods. They are merely creatures. Just like the people rejected by society because they don't fit in or play by society's rules, God does not impose himself upon those who, within their hearts, feel that they can do it all by themselves. God respects our choice to make the wrong decisions.
Do not blame God for HUMAN frailty.

At 10:46 AM, Blogger Heather feather said...

I have read most of these comments. I feel for the people that have either hurt or just don't see that there is a higher power. I at time wonder why GOD is not answering my prayers. If I only looked at this point I may not believe, but I have seen people healed that had cancers, and so many other issues that I can see GOD through this. I know of no other possibility for people hearing from GOD or having an angle with them in sight. I don't know everything about the bible. I and the same with GOD himself. I would hate to die and find out that he is real and be punished forever. I am not taking this chance. No one takes a chance like this with anything else. How do people get healed after being prayed for? I can only assume GOD did this. There is a true story about a older woman who called Dwight Eisenhower years ago to tell him that GOD told her to call him and tell him NOT to do something that only she could have known from GOD and the president listened to her and saved our people in war. Eisenhower's wife sent this woman a Christmas card every year for doing this. This is s true story. Prayer seems to work many times. GOD seems to answer them too. I know it's hard when one hurts. GOD gave us churches to support each other. This is one of the problems today.


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